Mike Durst
Co-Founder at OOMPH, a kickboxing fitness app
Where to hear and read about Mike Durst1 episode or test
Mike Durst is co-founder of OOMPH, a kickboxing fitness app in a crowded category, and runs its Facebook ads. The lesson to take from him: test many very different ads, optimize for trials, then retarget lapsed trial users, who buy right away.
Holy crap, we're making sales, you know? And we're making profit right away as opposed to waiting for the seven days.
The Facebook Retargeting Ads That Drives App Revenues
Mike Durst: the story and the lessons
1Mike Durst and OOMPH's kickboxing niche
Durst turned his passion for kickboxing into a niche fitness app. He co-founded OOMPH in a very crowded fitness category. A narrow kickboxing focus let a small app stand out.
The app invests in high quality content.
Durst puts effort into Facebook ads, not the Facebook page. OOMPH's Facebook page is not very active because manpower is limited. Organic effort goes mainly to Instagram.
He has worked on Facebook ads since launch, and that experience taught him what works and what doesn't.
2How Durst tests Facebook ads at OOMPH
Durst launches 20 to 30 creatives against four or five audiences. Audiences come from interests, lookalikes of app installs and lookalikes of website visits. Over a year OOMPH made and tested 400 to 500 ads.
Launching one or two ads and hoping is the mistake he warns against. One ad has beaten all the rest for the last couple of months.
Durst does not trust his gut on which ads will win. The ads he expects to crush it usually do poorly, and the ones he doubts often do best.
What matters is whether an ad converts with the chosen audiences, so he runs many variants and lets the data pick.
Durst tests very different creative types, including user generated content. OOMPH tests user generated content, its own workout videos, text versus no text, and user photos showing the app.
Creatives should differ a lot while staying true to the brand. User photos "sometimes do better than you think."
Durst now lets ads run up to seven days before cutting any. He used to switch ads off after one weak day. Ten ads across four ad sets means 40 ads running, and Facebook shifts budget to the winners.
He now treats it as check it and forget it, and only turns an ad off when something is super obvious.
Durst keeps creating new ads even while one ad wins. The top ad keeps running while new creatives try to beat it. None has beaten it in the last couple of months.
Durst says a small budget of about $30 a day is enough to start. At that level he runs about five ads across three ad sets. Even $300 a month shows what works and what doesn't.
He argues founders who spend everything on development cannot find product market fit. He sees ad spend as an investment "in yourself and in your business".
3How Durst optimizes and retargets for trial revenue
Durst starts by optimizing for installs, then switches to trials. Early on there is too little data to optimize deeper in the funnel, so he aims for a low cost per install to build an audience. Once data exists, he switches to app trials, now costing about $4.50 each.
Trial signups are qualified leads who actually take an action.
Durst optimizes the main campaign for trials because the free trial is seven days. Optimizing for purchases takes too long to show results. Purchase optimization is saved for the retargeting campaign.
Events reach Facebook through the Facebook SDK, which a developer adds to the app. He warns Facebook's options may change soon.
Durst retargets people who started a trial but never bought. About 10% to 15% of the budget goes to this campaign, optimized for purchases. These people know the brand, so they see the subscription page, tap continue and are charged at once.
He tested it about two months before the interview. Return on investment was "really, really good" and profit came right away instead of after seven days.
Durst builds the retargeting audience from trial events and excludes buyers. He selects people who triggered the trial event and excludes those who made a purchase.
Because these users already finished the seven day trial, there is no waiting.
The Facebook Retargeting Ads That Drives App Revenues
Mike Durst explains how OOMPH runs Facebook ads for a subscription fitness app: heavy creative and audience testing, optimizing for trials, then retargeting lapsed trial users to drive purchases. His retargeting campaign produced sales and profit right away instead of waiting out the seven day trial.
Durst turned his passion for kickboxing into a niche fitness app. He co-founded OOMPH in a very crowded fitness category. A narrow kickboxing focus let a small app stand out.
The app invests in high quality content.
Durst puts effort into Facebook ads, not the Facebook page. OOMPH's Facebook page is not very active because manpower is limited. Organic effort goes mainly to Instagram.
He has worked on Facebook ads since launch, and that experience taught him what works and what doesn't.
Durst launches 20 to 30 creatives against four or five audiences. Audiences come from interests, lookalikes of app installs and lookalikes of website visits. Over a year OOMPH made and tested 400 to 500 ads.
Launching one or two ads and hoping is the mistake he warns against. One ad has beaten all the rest for the last couple of months.
Durst does not trust his gut on which ads will win. The ads he expects to crush it usually do poorly, and the ones he doubts often do best.
What matters is whether an ad converts with the chosen audiences, so he runs many variants and lets the data pick.
Durst tests very different creative types, including user generated content. OOMPH tests user generated content, its own workout videos, text versus no text, and user photos showing the app.
Creatives should differ a lot while staying true to the brand. User photos "sometimes do better than you think."
Durst now lets ads run up to seven days before cutting any. He used to switch ads off after one weak day. Ten ads across four ad sets means 40 ads running, and Facebook shifts budget to the winners.
He now treats it as check it and forget it, and only turns an ad off when something is super obvious.
Durst keeps creating new ads even while one ad wins. The top ad keeps running while new creatives try to beat it. None has beaten it in the last couple of months.
Durst says a small budget of about $30 a day is enough to start. At that level he runs about five ads across three ad sets. Even $300 a month shows what works and what doesn't.
He argues founders who spend everything on development cannot find product market fit. He sees ad spend as an investment "in yourself and in your business".
Durst starts by optimizing for installs, then switches to trials. Early on there is too little data to optimize deeper in the funnel, so he aims for a low cost per install to build an audience. Once data exists, he switches to app trials, now costing about $4.50 each.
Trial signups are qualified leads who actually take an action.
Durst optimizes the main campaign for trials because the free trial is seven days. Optimizing for purchases takes too long to show results. Purchase optimization is saved for the retargeting campaign.
Events reach Facebook through the Facebook SDK, which a developer adds to the app. He warns Facebook's options may change soon.
Durst retargets people who started a trial but never bought. About 10% to 15% of the budget goes to this campaign, optimized for purchases. These people know the brand, so they see the subscription page, tap continue and are charged at once.
He tested it about two months before the interview. Return on investment was "really, really good" and profit came right away instead of after seven days.
Durst builds the retargeting audience from trial events and excludes buyers. He selects people who triggered the trial event and excludes those who made a purchase.
Because these users already finished the seven day trial, there is no waiting.