How to Write For Kids (Tish Rabe Interview)

Tish Robbie has written more than 200 children's books. She's written for Disney and Sesame Street. And then also after Dr. Seuss died in the early 90s, she started writing Dr. Seuss books. And when she did, she really leaned into his distinct style. And so I said, "Hey, you've been doing this for 40 years now. Can you teach me what it is that you know about writing stories, bringing characters to life, rhythm and rhyme?

You know that d that flow that Dr. Seuss books are so famous for? I want you to teach me how you do that. But if nothing else beyond the tactics, this conversation, it's going to help you lighten up a bit and have a lot more fun with your writing. You wouldn't believe it, but how I write costs a fortune to run. And it's thanks to Mercury that I can even do it. They're the sponsor of this episode and a banking platform that I've been using for the past 4 years to run my own business. When I started Howite, I expected finances to be an absolute nightmare. I got team members in four different countries. I think things to think about like currency exchange and taxes and expenses and I was just dreading it. But honestly, banking has maybe been the easiest part. I can't remember running into a single problem and it's because I've been using Mercury. I switched over from other more traditional banks because Mercury is so

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>> All right, back to the episode.

>> Well, what I want to do today is I want to learn how you write children's books >> and just all the things that you've learned and I want to get into tactics later on, but the first thing I want to do is just hear about your career in a few minutes. Hear about your career and just all the things that you've done. >> So, I have a degree in vocal performance and I came to New York right out of college. thought I would be a star in approximately a year, nine months to a year [laughter] and it didn't quite work out that way.

But the good news is I got a job as the music production assistant on Sesame Street season 3. And at that point, uh I always tell this story, but I really really wanted to sing for Jim Henson for the Muppets. And my first job was hiring the jingle singers in Manhattan to sing with the Muppets. So all day long I'm going, "Hi, Linda." You know, "Yeah, can you make tomorrow two to, you know, two to four?" You know, and all I wanted to do was sing with the Muppets. So, uh, pretty soon one of the composers asked me to sing and my first big song was I Love Trash, Anything Dirty and Dingy and Dusty with Oscar.

>> Oh, I love [screaming and groaning] trash. So, I sang with Oscar, I sang with Kermit, I sang with Big Bird, I sang on the albums, I sang with the Christmas specials. It was so much fun. But the fun thing about that is that it's here somewhere. Is that back then, um, they didn't have any books, so they asked us if we had any books. And I went down and pitched my idea of when I broke my grandmother's big teapot. How valuable, I guess. And my mother told me she loved me more than any teapot. So they asked me if I would do a book for Bert. This is Bert in the Broken Teapot.

It is long out of print. But in this book, uh, he breaks David's teapot and f, you know, works the whole book to try to get it fixed and in the end tells David that, uh, he, you know, he's afraid David won't be his friend anymore. And I remembered what my mother said and she said,"I love you more than any old teapot." So I took it in the book and David asks uh Bert to help him in his store the next weekend. So this was really number one. [laughter] Um >> what year was this?

>> Uh 1986. >> Wow. >> And after that I just wrote for everybody, you know, Big Bird, Clifford, Curious George, Bear in the Big Blue House, you know, the list went on and on. And uh I just kept writing and writing and writing and that's why I've written 200 children's books. I got started really early. >> That is an insane career. So you could writing for kids for 40 years. >> That is correct. >> Holy cow. It's it's incredible.

>> And where did you pick up? I think it was from Sesame Street. This idea of starting with the end >> with the end. Yeah. >> Well, the Sesame Street writers were absolutely so talented and funny and kind of crazy. be surprised that um you know I I would take notes at the writer meetings and you'd watch these ideas fly around and one of the big things was to write the ending first because if you see these, you know, comic skits, right, and the premise is funny and the costumes are funny and the whole thing's hilarious and where is it going and what is the punch line? Mhm.

>> So what they did um is they wrote things in reverse. They wrote the um you know they wrote the uh ending and then they back backed into the story. Um this is a book of mine that just came out. Kindness is caring, friendship is sharing, which I wrote with Trumbull Rotary Club. And they're an organization that tries to make the world a kinder, gentler place. And the way things are going, this is exactly the right time for this book, but this is a perfect example. I wrote the end first and in the end it says, "The friends watched a easy fly by and as they stood together, they thought of the ways we can make the world better." As the sun started to set, they knew in their hearts that kindness and caring, friendship and sharing is the are the best ways to start. So, you have all that written?

>> Yes. >> Before you write the first page? >> Yes, I do. >> That's >> because I need to know for instance, here's a here's a good thing about writing. So, you've got the start right here. We got the start, right? Beautiful day there. You know, Aziz flew by and he started to sing. He lit up the sky with his beautiful wings. Everything's going just well. >> Uhhuh. And now we have the ending where they're all friends and all that, but something has to happen. And of course, in this case, what happens is a hungry lion.

And the hungry lion comes. And what I learned from writing science for Dr. Seuss for a very long time, is that, and this is really true, when uh zebras are threatened, they huddle together. So all their stripes blend into each other and the lion can't see where one starts and one begins. Right? The other thing I share with kids is a zebra's stripes are absolutely one of a kind just like our fingerprints. Nobody else no two zebras have the same pattern.

>> Right? So in this you can see um the animals the zebras quickly surrounded Ammani and her mother and all of their stripes blended in to each other. So the lion gives up and goes away and doesn't hurt anybody. But it's a great example of helping out and cooperating and saving somebody else. So

you have that last that last page and walk me through how do you go from last page to first page and then story and then the zebra and the lion. How does all that kind of unfold? >> Think about it if you can when you write these books as three. It's always three. Beginning, middle, and end. So you've got your beginning, right? Where is this going to take place? First thing I thought of is Rotary is an international worldwide organization. I am not setting this story for them in PS42 New York.

>> I'll do another book in PS42 New York. >> But this time I wanted PS42. >> It's a public school, you know, you know, like that's, you know, one of those things. But I I um wanted the African plains. And then the first thing I did, and I urge everybody to do this, figure out the names of your characters early because I Googled African names. And the name Ammani, which is letter A, was right on the top of the list for girls.

Ammani means peace in Swahili. So now I've named her. I've got the little girl. I got the little zebra. I got the little name. She's in Africa, right? And the point of the book is learning to share and care for others. So she starts gathering flowers and she gives some to a giraffe and a little baby elephant who's taking a bath and things are going fine. And then da da da the lion shows up and everybody's got to cooperate and help her and help everybody and make sure that uh they stay away from this lion.

So that is a good example of ark beginning gorgeous fabulous middle lion oh no end wonderful peaceful happy.

>> How do you think about hooking kids? It feels weird to say, but how do you feel about hooking kids, bring them into the story? Because a lot of stories, it's like you got to start with the action in mind. Start with the part right before they're getting eaten by the bearun. This is a little bit different. This is, you know, things are good, things are peaceful, nice sunny day on a plane. How do you think about that?

>> Well, what the most important thing to do, I think, is create characters are going to like. And this is she's a very sweet little um uh zebra elephant zebra. and she is about 7 years old. One thing I urge people to do is know your target age for your children's book writing. Basically, there are two. There's 0 to four. The uh sleep book, which is here somewhere. This is a good example of 0ero to four. This is uh some sorry, this is sweet dreams ahead, time for bed. And it is helping kids slow down.

It's time for us to end our day. Time to tuck the day away. Very slow, very few words on a page. How to brush your teeth, how to take a bath, you know, fall asleep just reading this out loud. And then, of course, we have the beautiful photo uh picture everybody loves. This is hand drawing by a London artist named Jill Guile. And you can see that everybody is now beautifully asleep. Um, and then in this one, of course, you guys have now heard that I'm trained as a professional singer. I have to, of course, put a song in every book, you know, because it's what I do. Um, and so this one is Night is here, today is done. It's time to sleep, my little one.

Now it's time to feel the day softly, slowly slip away. Tomorrow will be bright and new, and I will share it all with you. Now the skies lit by the moon. Sweet dreams will be coming soon. So close your eyes and when you do know now and always I love you. >> So it's this but this is a good example of this is 0 to four, right? But then you get to a book like this and you're at four to seven, >> right? >> That is the next um age group up.

We urge everybody to uh make direct create characters that are older than your audience. So, um because kids love to look up to older kids, older people. It's 101. It's fabulous. >> Two or three years older. They were the coolest kids of the entire world. I remember being kindergartener. Oh my god. The second graders, the third graders. >> I know. They're so cool. It's a very big thing. A lot of schools now are having uh high school kids read to kindergarten >> because they come in, they look like grown-ups, but they're, you know, kids.

I mean, it's really, really fun. Um, so know your age group. Uh, know your what you really are trying to say.

>> How do you go about editing these books? Do you do it with actual kids? Do you feel like you have a felt sense for how an 8-year-old would respond differently from a four-year-old? Um, I have to say I've been doing this so long that I sort of have gotten what what the what works and what doesn't work. If I can say that. >> Um, I do write and write and write version after version after version. >> Um, by the time it's first seen by anybody, it's been through a lot of rewriting before I share it with an editor, before I share it with, you know, my kids, whoever.

>> And is that in Microsoft Word or where do you do it? >> Um, I I write I should have brought one. I uh write in um spiral notebooks. >> Yeah. >> And it's all written by hand. The other thing I urge everybody out there to do is you really need paper with you at all times. I carry it in my pocketbook. I have notebooks in my car. I have notebooks next to my bed at night because you don't know when you're going to come up with something. And if you don't write it down is a Chinese proverb. um something about uh you know lines on a paper are worth a million you know dreams because you can't remember you wake up the next day and go didn't I have an idea to name one of these seagulls something else >> and it's wrapper >> gone >> um so um pacing is important obviously the pacing of that little go to sleep book was very slow audience you can put more on a page um They if they're older readers, you can

put eight lines of rhyme. For little ones, you might put only a line that rhymes with now the next page. That is slow it down. Um, so and and I I really mean this about naming characters because kids remember that. They they knew her name was Ammani before I'd even opened the book, you know? They that really resonates um with kids if they have a name they really like. I was kind of a funny story about the I tried to name the seagulls for the Mystic by the Sea is the best place to be book because I live in Mystic Connecticut and I literally and I mean this sincerely I Google everything if it is taken by somebody else even for somebody who wrote it on a Christmas card or what I don't name my characters that because it's just you come up with something else right everything was gone Sylvester Seagull Sadie Seagull Sophie Seagull Sandy Seagull which was my personal favorite that went, you know,

immediately. So, um, at at a meeting with the mystic, someone said, "Well, you're going for S. S for seagull. Why don't you go M for mystic?" >> So, I didn't imagine I was going to name these three seagulls with Mwords, you know, Marina and um, you know, I don't I just didn't realize that was the way it was going to go, but it worked out all right. But it is funny. Mystic by the Sea >> is the best place to be. >> Yep. And uh um Hi, my name is Mason. I'm happy to meet you. Meet my wife Marina and our kids, Marco and Misty, too.

>> When I when I was having breakfast this morning and just reading a few of your books, the two words that came to mind for me were fun and light. >> What do you feel like you're going for? I what I like to do is have them be fun to read, fun to read out loud because of course everyone's reading out loud to kids >> and that you come away with something. You know, that's why I care so much about the final page because in a children's book, the final page is before you shut the book. It's before they go to sleep. It's before they go outside to play. It's before they leave for school. It has a lasting impression.

And um in the book that I wrote for military families, the last it's right here. The last page again that I wrote, but it because I knew it would have to resonate with these families because they're uh apart all the time. >> Sometimes apart, always in my heart. >> Yeah. So, this is a really nice one. This is Sometimes Apart, always in my heart, helping military families send love from far away. And I wrote this with a nonprofit called United Through Reading. And it's so moving what they do. They record service members who are deployed reading children's books to their kids. So it's a little video, right? Just imagine this is for my granddaughter. I'm reading the book. I'm showing her the pages and then they send a co brand new copy of the book to every child.

So when they're watching mommy and dad or daddy on the TV or the computer read to them, meanwhile they're in Afghanistan and the kids are in New Jersey, uh they can see the pages and see their parents. And in this case, the last part I wrote on this in this book, Daddy Bear has been deployed. And the last two pages, you know, I'm famous for this. [laughter] Um, it's always hard to say goodbye when I have to go. But the next time I give you a hug, I'll know I am I get the page turn here. These aren't easy. I I'll know I am home.

>> A

>> I know. Hard to >> Wow. Wait, hold on. This is really important. So, >> what I see here is that a lot of what's happening with the children's book is there's a kind of suspense with the page turning, right? cuz this is >> the page carries a weight in a children's book in a way that it doesn't in a novel. Correct. Right. Like >> the difference between page 393 and 394 in a novel is not like page seven and eight in a children's book. Absolutely.

>> And so a lot of what you're doing when you're writing is you're trying to pace the book >> and use the turning of pages basically to your advantage. Yes. And there's like a suspense. >> There is. That's part of >> what's coming up, you know, like even even with the lion, you know, they turn the page, are they gonna make it? Did something happen? What? You know, you have it's it's good to build that kind of thing. And you can see from the artwork that they are the they heard something, >> you know, look at the the little boy didn't hear anything, but the dog and the girl have heard him outside. They know daddy's coming home.

And um there he is. And that's the most powerful image in the book. >> Let me ask a really obvious question. >> Yes. >> Why animals? >> Uh it is very difficult in my opinion to do a book with real kids and make sure you don't leave anybody out. >> And if some kid gets a book, right, and it's 24 pages, the Dr. Seuss books are 42 pages. And where am I? Where's the little girl that looks just like me? >> Right? And in my opinion, it's just not worth it. Um, they're hard to draw.

Drawing real people is really hard. This illustrator does everything by hand. These are hand painted with tiny brushes. And there is a funny story about this one. She, her name is Jill Guile, and she lives in London. And she and I wrote a group of books called Huff and Puff. And huff and puff was a train and the front of the train was Huff because he's pulling and the back of the train was Puff who's pushing the thing.

And I will tell this story. I'm not kidding. I got a call from Harper Collins to write the Huff and Puff books. And the first thing I said on the phone was, "Ah, that is so great. Huff puff. I can rhyme them." And there was this dead silence on the phone. And the senior editor went rhyme. She said, "I uh we didn't really think about rhyme." So needless to say, they all rhyme. The first one was Huff and Puff have too much stuff. Could see that going, you know, pick up stuff and don't I don't we just need each other. We don't need all this stuff. You know, one of those.

>> But Jill was the illustrator for that. something to share with you for few people know authors and illustrators rarely talk to each other or meet >> what >> I know I have never met >> Is that like a feature? >> Well, it's a thing I've never spoken to the illustrator of my Dr. Seuss books. I've never sent him an email. I've never run into him at a party. There are theories that fly all over the place. I think one of them is the editors play such a huge role in keeping these books going and making sure they perfect example that this looks like Dr. Seuss.

They maybe feel that if uh Aristes and Ruiz and I get on the phone we could say why don't we just make the hat blue and white. [laughter] I don't know [gasps] but I've never met him. And um so now I'm running my own company. I started Tishabi Books in 2020. Now I'm dealing with the words and the pictures. I used to just turn in the words and this magical thing happened a year later. Somebody sent me a book.

>> What makes for a really good illustrator? I mean, obviously the drawings are nice. They make you smile. >> They What else is going on that you're like, "Wow, that is a great children's book." >> I'll tell you the thing that's the big thing. See, let me figure if I can find some some places for that. The big thing is the expression. Look at this grandpa putting him to bed. Wouldn't you love to have him, you know, read you a story and put you to bed?

He's just charming. >> He reminds me of the Kellogg's Tiger. >> Yeah, absolutely. Great. Yes. Great. [laughter] >> Um and and the way that and if you look at the faces on here, this picture, I could write a children's book about this picture. How was the bunny's day? What is the horse think dreaming about? You know, why are you know what? What? You know, and the famous part about this again, you know, that stuff is put in for fun. This rooster is just about to wake everybody up.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And when you look at kids and you say, "Do you see the rooster?" and they look and look because it's so much going on and they see him and I go, "He's just about to wake everybody up and half the time the kids go cockadoodle." I mean, they kind of get into it. But, >> but the detail and the care um it's just phenomenal. It really is. >> The other thing about this book which was really helpful is um I like to give people tips on how to read to their kids.

>> Huh. And one thing that's a big tip is to ask interactive questions. What was your favorite part of the story? If you could be any animal, who would you be? So, it's not a yes or no question. You know, how is how, you know, was school today good? Yes. No. >> What was your favorite part of school? >> And the other thing we did in this book, which was really really >> So, you wrote those questions in the book. And the other thing I did was a lot of parents need uh help getting their kids to go to sleep and I wrote little suggestions and I wrote them in rhyme. 30 to 60 minutes before you tuck them in is a good time for their bedtime routine to begin.

So it's not so do this, do that, you know. Um you can show them how to put away some of the things that filled their day. And this is my personal favorite right here, which not a lot of people know. Um, read books to your children you love most of all or tell them stories about you when you were small. And this little turtle, mama turtle, is saying, "When I was a little turtle, I lived on an island far, far away." And kids love to hear about you because they know that you're part of their life. And um it some if you can be you're on the beach and there aren't any books, you know, didn't Oops, forgot the books. Make up tell them a story about you.

>> Yeah. >> You know, uh it works. It really does.

>> So, what do you feel like you're talking about beginning, middle, end, what do you feel like are the components of a good story? I think the kids have to care about the the you have to you have to introduce the character at the beginning so the kids care. Ammani, this is a very good example. Kids, they find out she lives in Africa. They find out she's giving away her flowers to her friends. They're already involved with her before the lion comes and scares everybody. You've got to be emotionally invested in what's what. You know, you know, if you don't care what's going on, I mean, the bear family in this one, um, from the very, very beginning, >> this the military book, >> the military book, I have a story to share with you. It's about my family. I am very proud of them and they are proud of me. I have an important job to do and sometimes we have to be a part. I want them to know no matter where I am,

they're always in my heart. >> Oh, >> and then he's telling the story from his point of view. I love these illustrations. These are my favorites. Any book you >> This is Jill D, too. They're from London. >> Oh my goodness. How do you think about the editing here? Because you were just talking about >> getting kids to care. You don't have a lot of words to do that with. >> That is correct. Um, with the older audiences, I can put in sometimes eight lines in a spread, but sometimes it's only four. Um, and one thing I do urge everybody out there, it is very important to have a professional editor.

Um, our editor uh is from Sesame Street and she reads everything I do and um it's impossible to write a book like this without input from somebody else. When my kids were little, I used to have them read my Dr. Seuss books and if they stumbled at all, you know, >> change it, >> change it, >> change it. >> Uh, family is a tough one. Family can be family or it can be family, you know. So, see how the how the rhythm goes. Um, meteor is a tough word for kids. I mean, you just figure, you know, but you have to have an editor read your stuff because you're way too close to it.

Another tip, big tip while you're writing before it gets to an editor who you realistically have to pay for their time. Hand what you're writing. Whether it's a children's book, whether it's an essay, whether it's a magazine article, have someone read it out loud to you who has never seen it before. >> Somebody else read it to you. >> Somebody else read it out loud to you. >> You will find mistakes and misinterpretations and oh, I thought that was so clear, you know. Um because as a writer, you get immersed. you know, I spend years on these books and you get so close to it that you wouldn't know if there was something arai just because you've been spent, you know, tons of your personal time on it. So, I really urge people to

do that. >> When you're getting the editing, where is that happening? Because when I look at this book, there's two things that are going on. There's the words and then there's the images and then the way that both of those interact. >> Yes. So, are you just And then you're writing on a spiral notebook. So, are you transferring that into a Google doc? You're like, "Okay, here's the page difference." And then you're editing the words before you do the images, right?

>> 100%. So, what happens is the words come first. Words always come first, right? And what you do is you write your words and underneath it you type a art tart and you tell the illustrator what you're seeing on the page. >> So in this case it would be daddy bear is getting ready to go to work. Daddy bear and the other people in his unit are getting on a helicopter. Now, what happens then is you've got these talented, talented, talented artists that are drawing these pictures and often they will have an idea different.

>> Um, maybe on this one I said he was eating breakfast and maybe the artist got back to me and said, "Let's just have him putting his stuff in a backpack and getting ready to go to work." Okay. Yeah. So um you get a lot of creative input from your illustrator as well as the ideas that are in your head. >> Can you tell me more about >> first pages? >> Like this is in uh there's no place like it's all about our solar system >> and it opens up pretty fast.

>> Now this is one of the Dr. Seuss learning series books in case you didn't know. >> I knew I was telling them that's good. Yeah. Right. [laughter] back to the Cat in the Hat's learning library. >> Exactly. I'm the Cat in the Hat and we're off to have fun. We'll visit the planets, the stars, and the sun. There is no place like space. I will prove it to you. Your mother will not mind at all if I do. >> Well, for those of you out there that might have picked up on this, those last two lines were in the original Cat in the Hat book. Hm.

>> Um, and the interesting thing about that was The Cat in the Hatbook came out when I was, I think, like three or four years old. And my mother, who was an editor, uh, she did newspaper editing. She read it to me every day. And when I first started my job on in a Cat in the Hat, I realized that I still remembered it. I sat there with Sally. I sat there, we two, you know, said nothing, you know, something to do, whatever. So, I've just listened to it so many times. So, those last two lines are from his original book.

>> And remind me, what exactly is it that you did with the Dr. Seuss family? >> Is it their family? Is it >> people who own the IP? Like what what what is it? >> There is there Well, there's I personally worked for Random House. >> Okay. Random House uh developed the Cat in the Hats learning library. And the first two books they asked me to do was Is a Camel a Mammal and Fine Fathered Friends. So two um and I went on to write I think I wrote 20 of them and then I wrote Cat in the Hat books. I've written 53 Cat in the Hat books.

[laughter] You know, I just was Yeah. You know, just keep turning the stuff out. >> You wrote 53 of them? >> 53. Yes. >> Holy Toledo. >> I know. It's I don't even think we have all of them up on our Tishabi books website. I think we burned out at about 180 or something. Anyway, um so uh they are very careful with how his characters are presented and all that kind of stuff. >> And t talk to about we were sort of joking about this before like the right like on Venus the weather is always the same. Hot, dry, and windy with no chance of rain.

I know. It's always Isn't that funny? It's true. >> Yeah. So, what is that? What is that? >> Uh, it was a rhythm he had that as soon as we all got, you know, working for for Seuss, we remembered we had to write it in that rhythm. Um, and what I say that students when I talk to them is one of the ones I remember really well is on the 15th of May in the jungle of New Horton, the elephant sat in the pool. The other thing you asked me about a minute ago was uh it's different kind of rhymes. Yes.

>> Um, Dr. Seuss's rhymes were pure. For instance, cool and pool. That's a That's a pure rhyme. >> Cool and >> cool and pool. Okay. >> Okay. Um, barn and farm are slant rhymes. >> Close. Close, but not 100%. Right >> now, when I started my own company and started writing my own books, I have to admit I let slant rhymes in sometimes because to keep it that rigid the way he did, sometimes you just can't say what you're trying to say. Good example, no one's ever asked me this, but here it is.

>> Now I'm thinking in terms of rhyme. Sometimes you can't say what you're trying to say, so it's hard to have fun and come and go play. It's [laughter] like >> it gets bad. You know, >> this is a perfect example. It's always hard to say goodbye when I have to go, but the next time I give you a hug, I'll know I am home. It's go and home. It's in a slant rhyme, but nothing rhymes with home. Phone sort of, but you know what I mean. So, it's either go that route and so you can have the word home because the word that you want on this page is home because Daddy Bear is safely home. And we hope all the service members, the brave service members in our country get home. It's all anybody thinks about now. and to have a rhyming story knowing there is no real rhyme for this then that's why I did a slant rhyme so that I could hold on to that word um

and I did >> another thing that I'm noticing with all these books is maybe not all of them you're writing them from the perspective of children like in that final >> image right there it is the child who's in dad's hand the child >> yes >> the kid's going to relate to the kid >> that's right >> and that's who They're >> and in this particular case because United Through Reading has, you know, has these service members reading to their kids, they are not home. They're on the television, right? So all the kids want is for them to come home. So you feel in your heart that the tug on this is that Sophia and the little boy too, but she's five and this little girl bear is just waiting for him to come home. The other thing that is interesting is when I interviewed all these families, one thing they said over and over and over and over again is that what they tell these kids that helps is that when they look up at the moon, they

know that's the same moon that mommy's looking up at at night. Every time you see the moon with its glowing light, know I am safe and you are safe and everything's all right. >> Oh, >> and this helps them missing their parents so desperately. >> Yeah. >> So, it's very powerful stuff. I think that there's a moment in Night by Ellie Weisel, which is obviously about a completely different subject, but the Holocaust. >> Right. Right. Right. They said the same thing >> that has to do with the moon.

>> One Holocaust movie or story. This is exactly one of the key point >> what it says. >> There's something about the moon. >> It's very powerful. Um I wrote a I wrote a this is funny. I wrote a song for uh I wrote a book for Sesame Street about Elmo's first sleepover. It was actually really cute. So Elmer Elmo is going on a sleepover, right? And he's not sure he's up for this at all. And his mommy hasn't even left yet. And he's not he's this is not whose idea was this? Wait a second.

And um I literally took that book and I was about to send it into Sesame Street and they said would you write a lullabi for us for the book and I tell this story all the time and embarrass my son but it was the week he was 18 it's years ago that he was headed for college and I you know so close to him I didn't want him to go you the whole thing. So, I wrote a lullabi for Elmo, although sometimes I think I wrote it for Johnny, my son. But there are lots of fish in the ocean. There are lots of flowers that grow. There are lots of birds flying in the sky. But I want you to know there is just one moon shining in [singing] the night. The same moon shines on all of us when we say good night. So tonight, look at the moon and I will do that too. When you go to sleep and start to dream, remember I love you.

Remember I love you. I know without a dry eye. What can I say? But I just set it off to it was that and I put it on a piece of tape and

off it went says me. Now, when you write a song like that, do you think of the melody as you're writing it or do you basically write the words, you're like, I'm writing a song and then somehow it like gets lifted into a melody later on. >> I will tell you what I do. I work with incredible composers. >> Composers? >> Yes. >> Wow. >> And my friend Mike Lec and I have I think we're somewhere up around 65 songs. But when I wrote for Disney, I had a composer.

>> What did you do for Disney? I wrote songs for Disney book and audio. >> Okay. >> Many, many, many. Every beautiful princess you see is learning the alphabet from A to Z. I mean, I just can go on like this for hours. >> Sounds a good one. >> But anyway, so I write the words and then I get to the composer and he'll send me something and then I'll sing it and you go back and forth a little bit. >> But um we wrote for Sesame Street, Disney, we we wrote for everybody. So

yeah. What storytellers do you really admire? >> Well, growing up, I was a Beatatri Potter fan. Okay. >> Uh when we were little, Beatatrix Potter books were this big, you know, and he carried them around. I was I love that. Uh my mother used to read us the Wizard of Oz, the original Wizard of Oz. What few people realize is Elrank Bomb wrote the Wizard of Oz and then he wrote 10, 20, 30 other books based on this, you know, world. And back then, of course, there were very few pictures. So my childhood was listening to the rhythm of my mother reading aloud, you know, uh, and you know, and then the clockwork man said, you know, it's time for you to get out of here. And the other one said, and you had all you had was your imagination, the sound of her voice and imagining what the clockwork man was doing with when the people were throwing him out of Oz, what it looked like, you know? So I think from my very I mean my

brothers even say this they're convinced that the reason I'm a children's book author is that she read to us every night. Every single night I have a picture of us. I think I'm four sitting next to her and because I was little and the only girl I'm here and then one brother and then one brother. But we're just hanging on every word. It was amazing. >> Yeah. I'm thinking about some of my favorite children's books. the ones that we read and this goes back to the point about animals. You know, I think about where the wild things are. Obviously, that's animals >> 100%.

>> But then I think about that bar and the elephant. >> Mhm. >> But when I was a kid, we met this pilot and uh it was back when little kids, you know, we'd go in the cockpit, you know, getting off the plane or go on and >> and I always loved airplanes. And this pilot, he had this whole series of children's books. I remember the main character was Wall-E the widebody. He was a Boeing 747. >> Oh, he was a >> and uh yeah, it was all airplanes was all the was all the characters. And one thing that's super unique about children's books relative to other kinds of books is that you can just keep writing and keep writing and keep writing these series. So, I mean, from a business perspective, that's good. And then also from the kids perspective, you can just read different ones every single night. Just float in and out of different books within the same series.

>> Yep. when I I developed the I believe bunny. He's here somewhere. Um he you know he has different different adventures. You know that's one thing also you can do. So this is a good example of creating a little bunny. And I called him the I believe bunny because he believed in himself. He believed that he could make a difference. This is the one with the famous even you can make a difference even a bunny your size. Um, and this is another example of I just all I did was a again this is Frank Endersby, a beautiful illustrator from London. Um, I just started with a beautiful day.

>> Wow, that's like watercolor. >> It's watercolor. It's beautiful. >> And this was our inspirational line. So God is involved. Um, once upon a time in a land hard to find lived the I believe bunny who was funny and kind. He thanked God for his home in the flower fil Glenn where the sun shined a lot. This is to your point, but the sun shined a lot, but >> it rained now and then. >> And then [laughter] >> um >> I think that's a core part of children's books. There's just like this suspense embedded embedded within to the medium as well.

>> You just don't know what is going to happen next 100%. >> Yeah. >> And h and you always want to have a real ending. You know, nothing's like I don't know what happened and I don't know where they ended up. No, this has to end. You know, this is this is what h at the end of this. They're all happy. He saved his little friend the mouse who couldn't swim and they're on the riverbank and everything is great. This is the one just like the I believe bunny. You may get a surprise. You can make a difference. Even a bunny your

size. When I think of children's books, the words that come to mind are like inspiring, motivational, happy, joyous. Have you written books that are the opposite side of that? >> You mean sad? >> Yeah. >> Sad book. No. No. I I'm inspiring every as long everything 247. >> 247. >> Uh the world's a tough place, you know. And I think that uh I think writing one of the reasons I wanted to write the military book was the the soldiers were reading my Dr.

Seuss books. They're reading Goodn Night Moon. They were reading Very Hungry Caterpillar. It was wonderful. >> But I wanted to tell their story. What is it like when you're explaining to a to your five-year-old who's home, >> right, >> what you're doing and that you have, you know, here's a good example. Um, he tells her, you know, this is here's that he's got a friend. This is his friend, the pink flamingo in a flight suit.

>> I'm proud to serve my country and I am proud of you, >> you [laughter] know, and so so that the [clears throat] their children at home can see that they're all right. You know, it's okay. The other thing I did in this book, which I'm very proud of, is and I've never seen this done. The all the people I interviewed told me about tips because they were deployed service members who came home and also the the parents who stayed home while the service member left and took care of the kids. And one of my favorite is when my husband leaves, he traces his hand on paper and I put it up to the door so the kids can give him a high five every time they leave. Who would know that unless you lived it, >> right?

>> And the other thing too, just wanted to share a lot of military kids get bullied. The kids don't understand why dad's never at football, mom never comes to the school play, you know, what's what's going on. And we urge people when and military families move every two and a half years often, which means these kids are the new kid in school over and over and over again. So I urge all of you out there who if you know of a military family who comes into your uh community, they need everything. Where's the veterinarian? Where's the library?

What's the best, you know, the, you know, grocery store? So, one of these back pages does uh really urge everybody to help if you can

>> tell me this. What's in a cover? >> What's in a cover? >> What's in a cover? What's in a title? What's in a subtitle? Like, what do you focus on with these? >> Um, well, I have all they're all over the place, but the a lot of my uh titles rhyme. There's no place like space. Mystery Mystic by the Sea is the best place to be. The I believe bunny. We were trying to make it short, I think. Couple of things. Um, this is interesting to show. Let me hold this up for you. the and the bunny one too. If you notice, we try very hard to have the characters facing into the book.

Imagine it's not easy. What this would look like if it was flipped and instead of him looking this way into the page turn, right? >> You're looking into the book and now you're going to turn the page right here. If and it's really tough to do, but if you imagine this and he's over here, you know, he's holding the little bunny now, you're you know what I mean? You're you're pulling it from the other side. >> A lot of advertisers do this with the eyes going to the call to action button.

The same principle, you know, sells they're facing. I mean, it's amazing the difference it makes. >> Um sometimes it helps if you have a character looking right out. We were very careful to make sure Alaska, they're all looking at each other because Daddy Bear just got home, but Alaska is looking at the reader. >> Huh. >> He's looking at right at the little reader going, "Hello, >> hello. How you >> Hello. I can't wait to do an animation with him."

>> I think he's more like a [laughter] >> Yeah, he's panting is what he's doing. Little his little >> There's a word for this. >> There's a word for this. Um, so and and everything we do, I did bring this to show you because not everybody gets to see this. What I did want to show you because few people get to see this is there are black and white sketches first. >> So you're sketching this >> uh or this illustrator Illustrator has sketched this >> and the good thing about this is this gives us the opportunity to say for instance move this. They're moving this.

we decided we need one of those um compass rose things, north, south, east, west. Um so you get to see it before he or she spends all this time putting in all the color. >> So what happens is it starts like this and ends up looking like this. >> So here's a sketch. >> That's a sketch. >> And then you're working through it. >> Yep. And I'll show you that is the sketch for this >> if you can see it. >> Yeah. It's the It's the first sketch of the map and the a little seagull family and it's a big help to start with this.

>> Interesting. So, you're sketching you're actually in that sketch not thinking of it page by page, but you're thinking of two pages almost as a series together. >> Well, interestingly enough, in children's books, you have two things. You have single pages. Now you'll notice here this is the map on the left single page. The the first page introducing the seagulls single page and this when you turn the page is whole mystic downtown and we call this a spread. A spread is two pages all it's have one picture >> right?

>> So and the uh kindness is caring book has a lot of spreads too. So this is a great example of um what goes into books you have to figure out here's another spread. This is the seapport. So you have to figure out when you are writing I urge everybody to in your head what are the single pages and what are the spreads. >> When do you want to use a single page? When do you want to use a spread? >> You can use a single page if let's see find us another one here. This is a good example. Uh the sing this is a single page about the mystic village. Mystic village is cute. We like it. But this is what it is. it stores. This was not going to really be as wonderful for a full spread as the aquarium, which is the Mystic Aquarium. This is the Seapport, which is famous. That's a spread. The little place where you can buy chocolate and stuff. It's cute, but it's a page.

>> And how is the writing different on a single page versus a spread? >> For me, I basically keep to four lines a page. So, eight eight lines a spread. So, this is a great example. This is a spread of the aquarium in downtown Mystic. Um, next we're off to the aquarium. We might see you there. Veterinarians treat the animals with lots of love and care. When we take our kids to this world famous destination, we learn how to protect our planet through ocean conservation.

See, conservation and destination. See, this is what I do all day. [laughter]

So, if I just started throwing words at you, are you just insanely good at rhyming? >> I am very good. Um, I talked to you about this before, but when I first started, and we're really, guys, we're talking 19, you know, I started in 86. I mean, I started in 1986. Um, but I used to have when I started writing Dr. Seuss was around 19, he died in 1991. I started writing for him in 1992. >> Wow. And back then they had >> No pressure.

>> Yeah, right. [laughter] Oh, no. But um they had a computer program called a million gajillion rhymes and you literally typed in, you know, lemonade and 50 things came up or not, you know. Um and I've now reached the point, you know, 30 years 30 what you said 40 years later that I don't need it. But um I used to. >> So does it just kind of go in your head? You'll hear a word like might. Sight. >> Oh yeah. Fight. Right.

>> Slight. >> Oh yeah. >> Kite. >> Kite. >> Um. >> And uh one thing that we talked about which is kind of fun is Dr. Seuss used to make up words. You know when he didn't have something that rhymed. Um from the sleep book. I think it's something like have you met the Van Vlex? When they sleep they yawn so wide you can see down their necks. So he made up the van flex to have something to rhyme with next which you know is a tough word. Um so I wrote a book for pets right and so now it's a whole word whole 42page book on pets. Oh the pets you can get. What rhymes with pets? Gets.

>> That's it. >> Mess. That's it. Gets. Right. Ge. [laughter] So I decided to put it in the town of Gerlettes Bets. Gerpletes. So um the mayor of Gerpettes knows quite a bit about caring for pets. And so as long as I was in Gerpletes, I didn't have to I had something for everything, you know, for pets and cats and you know. So sometimes it is has we did have a lot of fun making up some words like he would have you know done when you're in a corner without a rhyme. [laughter] So it was really really fun to do. is um do you ever not want rhymes? When do you want rhymes? When don't you want rhymes?

>> I have actually uh ever since I I started writing for Dr. Seuss, I all my books rhyme. >> Oh, really? >> Um Bert and the Broken Teapot, my first one was one of the first. That is what you kind of call a pros book. In other words, if you just open it. Oh, Bert said Prairie Don. May I have some more milk, please? Coming right up, said Bert. Bert was trying to serve his customers as fast as David did. He reached for the milk. This is when he drops the teapot. That's one kind of writing. Many, many, many, many children's books are written like that.

I decided since I have such a deep background writing for Dr. Seuss that all of mine rhyme. Um, so the the um military book uh you know, I've got to tell the story of of Daddy Bear being away from his family in rhyme. And uh the other thing I did that's fun here I'm I was a nut for an officer in a gentleman movie. >> You know Richard Gear >> and they're always going you know they're always marching to a certain rhythm you know.

>> So I wrote a march for this book. I know we're not together but I'm here to say I'm always thinking of you each and every day. We got a busy day ahead and I've got mine. It isn't always easy, but we're doing fine. And I love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My last is people say I'm brave, and I know that's true. I want you to know that you're brave, too. When I'm home with you or when we're far apart, no matter where we are, you're always in my heart, and I love you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Can't wait to hug you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny how many songs have become these they're songs and then they'll they have a rhythm and then they'll put other words into it. Like you hear that with Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star. Oh, please. >> I've heard so many things. >> I've written probably 15 of them so I could sing them to you all afternoon. Oh yes. >> So why does Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star work as a kind of shell container for other things to come into?

>> The reason it works and I will this is absolutely a true story. I was writing this and for the first time ever, it takes place in Africa. Um, the Rotary Club I work with in Trumble, Connecticut, got me on a Zoom with three teachers in Uganda. I have never been able to talk to the enduser teacher during creating a book until then. And I mean this sincerely, I was working on a song. I'm always working on a song. And I use Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star a lot. And I said to them on the Zoom, I said, "I'm a little nervous." I said, "Because I'm writing the song to Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star." Um, does everybody around the world know Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star? All three of them.

Not a blink. Absolutely. The other thing was, and this I share this with the writers out there, I thought I was halfway through writing this song. This is what I had. Every day we all can find lots of ways to be nice and kind. Think of things that you can share. Take the time to show you care. Help your friends. It's fun to do. You'll help them and they'll help you. I had meant to do it again. One more verse about something. I don't know what it was going to be, but I didn't have it started yet. And the literally all three teachers said it's perfect. That's short. My one in the one I wrote for uh Central Park that this coming out tomorrow is longer. I I had the thing done already. I thought but again, you know, it's Central Park. There's a lot to talk about, you know, but they're all Central Park is here for you. There's lots to see and lots to do. Every hour, monkeys ring a bell. You can ride the

carousel. Very proud of that. >> Mhm. >> Playgrounds, lakes, and waterfalls, and gardens. You can see them all. You'll meet animals in the zoo. You'll see birds and flowers, too. There's room to play and room to run or have a picnic in the sun. Spend the day. It's fun and pretty in the heart of >> New York City. >> I'm just saying it works everything. [laughter] >> It really does. >> Somewhere in the world is the person who wrote this song, but it's public domain for years and years. But everybody knows the song.

>> It's just so you don't have to put the lyrics, you don't have to put the notes in, you don't have to make a big deal out of it. And um and it it's really

fun. How's writing stories different from education? Like when you're teaching kids something? >> Well, this is a good example because um Dr. Seuss thought of this idea before he died which was teaching early readers about science and rhyme. So the first thing I had to do for all of them was go to the library and research the topic for kids. And this is educational publishing at its best. And what I did was I went to the local library and I took out all the children's books on the topic. So already somebody had simplified the science. Then I had to take the simplified science and I wrote in countless notebooks and then put it in rhyme uh so that it would be accurate. Now um next here is Mars. It's the color of rust. We sneeze here because it is covered with dust.

Who knew that Mars was covered in D? But now you know and it was correct. But I will share something with you that few people know that we got this book all written and it was doing very very well and suddenly there's the controversy about Pluto. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh boy. Okay. So now I have written this whole book about nine planets and suddenly bam there's eight. So this is my favorite. >> That was the first thing that was ever taken away from me in this world.

>> Oh boy. So this is my favorite. This is a pneummonic of how to remember the planets. It originally was Mallerie Valerie Emily pizzas just served up 999 pizzas and pizza was for >> Pluto. >> Pluto. Boom. So I get a call from Random House. Would I take this this spread here, two pages, and change it and take Pluto out of it? In the meantime, if you look closely, you'll see that Mallerie Valerie Emily has got her arm up. And originally, she had pizza boxes stacked all the way to the top of the page >> because she was serving up 999 pizzas.

You're with me so far? >> I'm completely >> All right, fine. So, now I have to take Pluto out of the mix here. So I change it to Mallalerie Val Valerie Emily Mikkeles just showed us 999 nickels. So now we've got Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, no Pluto. >> Rest in peace. >> Rest in peace. So all it meant was that the artist and then they said to me, you we don't want to ask the artist to redraw the whole thing. All he had to do was take the pizza boxes out and put the nickels in.

But this gives you some idea of the creative process that goes into books like this that are factually correct. Now, a little book like uh my original one, Bertton Ernie. Right here we go. Burton Ernie on the cover. So, the Dr. Seuss books were educational. They were about science. They were accurate. They were approved by experts. Everything was perfect. A book like this, Burton the Broken Teapot, this is a story book. And the educational part of this book is that people and friendship are more important than things. And when I wrote this in, believe it or not, 1986, we got so much fabulous feedback and beautiful letters from parents who wanted the world to know that the important thing here was that David loved Bert so much that he wasn't angry at him because he broke a thing, but that he was his friend. So, this is a book with an educational message, but it's not facts and, you know, all the

food pyramid and all that kind of stuff. It's about caring for your friend. This was interesting. Um, I had a friend, uh, my senior editor, executive editor at Tishabi Books is a trained greeter at Central Park. You have to be trained to meet the people. They come into the park, they've got their kids, they've got their dog. And over and over and over, she kept getting asked, "Where should I take my kids? 843 acres. Sure, we're here for an hour and a half. What do I do?" So, she worked with me and I >> go to the Bethesda Fountain. That's where you go.

>> It's in here. It's It's definitely in here. The Bethesda Fountain. Um, you go. So, we worked with the Central Park Conservancy. Here's the Bethesda Fountain. and uh help they helped us get the 24 things that um kids should see and parents should see when they come to Central Park. The other thing that was interesting is believe it or not and I you may be one of them some of the people in United States think that uh the city of New York pays for the park but we knew that actually the Central Park Conservancy takes care of the park.

So we wrote a little thank you here for them. Um thank you Central Park Conservancy. This park is world famous. To keep it that way, the Central Park Conservancy works hard every day. Gardeners mow lawns fix playgrounds, plant flowers and grass, rake leaves, shovel snow, and take care of the trash. We're very grateful for all that they do. We want to thank them and we know you do, too. This was to help little kids understand that somebody, if you're going to drop, you know, a lunch bag on the ground and walk away, somebody has got to pick it up. So, I think that's going to help. Here's another one that I didn't know, actually. Please leave balloons home. They are bright, pretty things, but birds can get tangled and caught in the strings. I have to admit, I've got a three-year-old granddaughter.

If she'd said, "Can I take my birthday balloon with us into the park?" I don't know that I would have said no to be completely honest until I was meeting with the park in a conservancy. They're like, "No, this is awful for the birds." But I didn't know. So we put in some tips so people can take care of the park

also. >> Can I ask you about the business of doing all this? >> Yes, sure. Uhuh. >> Tell me about the business of doing all this. [laughter] >> What is the Okay. Well, there's many This is different different this is different ways. Good good good question. Um I am a I have been hired by just about every publisher in the world. And what happens in some cases, not all. You either write a book for a flat fee. They pay a flat fee. You write the book, they take it over, they do the illustrations, they send you five copies and you move on to the next one. Happily in the Dr.

Seuss world, um, I get a royalty for every book sold. And the nice thing about that is that he's so popular that the books sell very, very well. The funny part that nobody knows about except me and my husband is you get paid twice a year. Twice. You get paid in first week in February and the first week in August. >> Okay. >> And you have no idea what the check is going to be. >> So dinner on August 1st is very risky.

>> Really risky. We're either going out for hot dogs. >> Yeah. Um >> exactly. We're either doing >> hot dogs or we're doing steakhouse. >> Steakhouse. The uh they send you online. You can see how your books did every week. >> Oh. >> So for all the books I have with Dr. and other publishers that I get royalties. I can see how they did. It is all over the place. You know, some weeks it's in the thousands, some weeks it's 20. You know, it's No, go figure, right?

Um, but the interesting thing is you do get paid twice a year and you don't have a clip. And is the how's the business of children's books different from hardcover paperbacks, 300page novels, the kinds of books that are in these vaults, >> right? Well, for one thing, our books tend to be less expensive, you know, to buy. Uh, our books average $9.99, $10.99. The the um Central Park book is $12.99. So they sell so you have to sell a lot is all I'm saying to you know some of the adult books are 2850 or whatever.

Um but they do sell a lot of copies which really helps. Um and my books are on tishabbooks.com. They're on Amazon. Uh and it it does add up. One of the things I'm trying to do in my company is write as many books as I can to increase the library. >> Um so we're not how can I put this? the whole thing is not resting on one book, you know, which is hard. One of the things about writing children's books that I tell my family and I'm will someday tell my grandchildren is that these books are timeless. Timeless.

Um, you know, Goodn Night Moon was written, I think, in 1940ome at Cat and the Hat, the 50s, and you know, they're around forever. And one of the things that's interesting on the business side of what I do, unbelievably enough, I wrote two of the best-selling Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle videos of all time. [laughter] Nobody believes it. I who remembered, but you know, it's a 1993. Um, I wrote uh uh We Wish You a Turtles Christmas and I wrote turtle tunes and both of them were written with songs.

They were music videos back in the music video days and I wrote all the songs to public domain uh melodies. Um, you know, uh, and one of them was >> So, what would those be? Like Mary had a little lamb for a little star. >> Um, I've been working on the railroad, >> you know. Uh, she'll be coming around the mountain. >> I've been working on the railroad. I think that's the Texas the University of Texas fight song. So there you go. I've been working on the railroad.

>> Absolutely. So funny. Uh about seven months ago, I got an email that one of my songs from We Wish You a Turtles Christmas. Got to get a gift for Splinter. Got to get a gift. Got to get a gift. Got to get a gift for Splinter was going to be used in a trailer for the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie that just came out. Right. So, I get this email and they're saying, "Are you the Tish Robbie that wrote We Wish You a Turtles Christmas?" I feel like saying, "How many of us are there?" But, okay, that's fine. You know, >> yes, I am. And how can I help you? And all that kind of stuff. Long story short, they paid me to use that song on the trailer for the new movie and they paid me a lot in my opinion. And that is a classic example of you throw all this create creative out all day long every day 365 and you just don't know what, where, how, you know. But I I mean this sincerely. I will talk to my children

and talk to my grandchildren because these rights stick around forever. I was very impressed that Paramount Pictures didn't just use it. Meant a lot to me financially obviously, but also, you know, you steal people's stuff. I mean, really. >> Um, but they were so nice to do it. And then I got an email from a friend's daughter who said, "I just took my kids to the movies and all of a sudden, not only was your song on the trailer for the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie, but your name went by, they put a credit in it. It's it's like 20 seconds of this little So, it was just really nice." So, you just The thing about creative media is you're just tossing it out there. Who knows what is the one that will just take off, you know? I

want to get back to the business stuff in a second, but >> I have a philosophical question, which is you're talking about yourself there as I'm creative and you obviously care about quality. You obviously care about the craft. You obviously care about writing great books, but you're not precious. You don't strike me as precious about your creativity. You don't you don't even strike me as stressed about your creativity.

[laughter] What is the internal story that you're telling yourself in order to have this perpetual motion of kind of ease and flow, but also like you're making good stuff. >> And you know, it's funny. I I absolutely believe and I have been challenged with some of the things people have asked me to do and stuff they've asked me to write and people come to me and say, could you help me write a book about and I have to say at the end of the day, I always feel like I will come up with something M >> I'll come up with something.

>> What is that? Faith, >> belief. >> Yeah, I think it's and it's experience. You know, I've done this a lot. So, if someone comes up to me and says, you know, could you, you know, write a a story about a dancing, you know, water bottle, I'll come up with something, you know, [laughter] I mean, it's practically written already. You know what I mean? Great example of that. I mean this sincerely. I moved to Mystic, Connecticut. This is Mystic by the Sea is the best place to be. and I decided I better join the Chamber of Commerce, the Mystic Chamber of Commerce because I was brand new at running my company. I thought maybe there's somebody in town that's also running a small business could help me. So, I joined the M the Greater Mystic Chamber of Commerce. I get a call from their membership chair.

She's in her 30s, beautiful young woman, and said, "Could I have we have coffee and I thought, well, she probably wants to put my bio on their website or whatever, right?" So I I sit across from her and after a couple minutes she goes, "Well, we wanted to know if you could help us." I said, 'Well, if I can, I'll help you. What do you need? She said, 'Well, our 100th anniversary is coming up and we want you to write a children's book.

And I looked at her and I said, "Uh, when is it?" [laughter] She looked right at me. She goes, "Six months." >> She goes, "Six months." And I remember thinking, "There is absolutely no way I'm going to pull this off." And for the first time ever, and I mean this sincerely, we're in a coffee shop at the Mystic Seaport. And I saw four seagulls fly up over her head in my head. And she's talking and I'm watching her voice go. She goes, "We really need the sketches and we really need" and all of a sudden I thought, "I I got it. It's four seagulls who fly all over Mystic and take everybody to the popular spots.

I admit I told her it had to be 16 pages, not 24. I said, "I will never get it done in time." But that is a great example of suddenly it just hit me. And we designed the seagulls. We got, you know, this illustrator to draw everything. thing we have, you know, and we made it in seven months. I would never do it again, but we made it. But it was crazy. But, uh, I had it done. So, it's belief. >> Yeah. Do you get stressed or anxious about these projects >> sometimes? Uh, someone asked me the other day, uh, I spoke at a seminar for girls right now, Writ, and it was a Zoom and we had people, young women in the audience as well. Somebody asked me if I get writer's block. It's the first time anyone's ever asked me that. And I said, "100% I do."

>> Oh, you do? >> And what I do, and I tell everybody, especially if you've got a deadline, either they hired you to write a book or you've got a printer deadline, I always push it back. Good example, I'm writing a book for Harper Collins right now that's due in uh June. in my head it's due in May because I've got to leave a little smoosh >> some buffer >> buffer. If I get to a point and I simply cannot think of anything. So I do I really do urge people if you've got a deadline move it so that there's a gap.

>> So if I came to you I said Tish I need some advice. I'm working on a book. I'm really stuck. I'm really stuck. I'm really stuck. I'm really stuck today. I've been stuck for a few weeks. I'm kind of panicked. >> Yeah. >> What do you tell me to do? >> I would I would tell you cannot force it. Go do something else. Go, you know, work on something else. Go, you know, think take a, you know, two days off, you know, whatever. But you've got to clear your head. You got to get it out of your head. And what happens to me is it once you've got it out of your head, then all of a sudden it comes back and it makes sense.

>> Yeah. I heard a good line one time, uh, three B's when you get stuck. Bed. Bath and bus. Bed. Go to sleep. Bath. Chill. Relax. Just take it easy. And bus. Go somewhere new. >> Go somewhere new. Yes. >> Go somewhere new. Change a scenery. Walk around. >> Yes. >> But I like that. Those are kind of three Bs that you can come to when you're

stuck. >> Mhm. >> Take me back to the business of publishing. So, >> you were writing for other people for a long time and you were really just focused on the words. I mean you were saying earlier like I didn't even meet the illustrators and then >> 2020 I think it was you start your own business and now you see the entire production line. So like what did you learn about publishing how books get done that you didn't know before that?

>> I will say the things that I didn't see coming um was how do you choose an illustrator? This is 101 in the business but I never had to do one. You know, so I knew uh I guess the best example of that is I knew that I wanted Jill to draw this one because I'd worked with her before and her style was so soft and sweet and nice and when she started talking to little kids about bed, this is what you're looking for. Um her style is not right for everything.

It wouldn't be a she's not the right style for a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles book, but for this book, she was perfect. So, the first thing I had to deal with is choosing an illustrator. Very, very, very difficult. Um, one thing I would urge people, because I get this question every day, is if you self-publish a book, I urge you not to get it illustrated because if you want a editor to editorial house to buy it, they really frown on getting submissions that are word and picture >> really >> because the very few people realize this because what happens to them, you've written this book from your heart and you've gotten your dad to illustrate it.

So, this is this heartfelt project that hits their desk. Now, they love your words. They hate his pictures. >> They love his pictures. They hate your words. >> You have now married this thing in, you know, emotionally, intellectually, whatever. And it's risky. submitting is hard enough but to add a layer that could go ary is another issue. Um so suddenly that was the first thing. Uh finding illustrators who is the right illustrator for the book are they available? Can you afford them? We work with two phenomenal agencies in New York that have provided us with illustrators.

When we did the book for uh Rotary in Africa, I wanted an African artist and I called the agencies and I said, "I want an artist from Africa." And they found us a beautiful young woman who immediately knew what we were looking for. And she created from This is interesting. I always have in my head what these characters going to look like. I saw a little girl Zebra and all of a sudden there she was the first time Mocha sent us her sketches. Um the next thing is what it means to look at black and white sketches and understand how it's going to look in color um and understand the process. We found a printer in New Haven, Connecticut, which is very near my home in Mystic, Connecticut, who would print the books for me. Um, these are soft cover. Then you have to figure out your format. Now, this is a good example. This is seven and a half by nine. This book is what we call an 8 by8. It's 8 in by 8 in. This

is a more grownup format than this. Little kids love this cuz it's square and it's nice and cute. This not only is a little bit more sophisticated, but it gives you space to do a spread like this. >> Wow. >> This is an 18 across. It's 18 in. So, this is a foot and a half of space for the illustrator to draw. Here come the ze other zebras to help her cuz she's afraid. She knows a lion is on his way. She's frightened and they come to help her. And this is how much space this gives them. Um, how many to print is always a challenge.

>> Distribution. >> Distribution is really challenging. Uh, getting on Amazon is not easy. My some of my books are, some of my books aren't. It's a lot of paperwork to get on Amazon. In fairness to Amazon, they are so, so careful. I literally had to have my husband scan my face on his phone so that it matched my passport to get on Amazon because they're so careful and try so hard to get keep, you know, nefarious stuff from going on. Um, it's a big big deal. I I do book fairs. I do, you know, I I do some school visits. I used to do school visits all the time and I just got to the point where it the whole day is gone. You know, by the time you get to the school and talk to the kids and then get yourself home, you know, it's like gone. Um, >> so it's really been Tishabi books. It was exactly what I wanted to do. I absolutely love every minute of it, but it's really a lot.

>> Yeah. Distribution's hard. >> It is. >> I mean, also the prize to be won is great, right? Like if you think of, you know, you curry the favor of a higher up at Barnes & Noble. Oh, they say Tish Robbie, my favorite. And now you're right in the children's book section right at the height of a eight-year-old's eyes in every single Barnes & Noble all throughout North America. All of a sudden, it takes care of a lot of what you're going for.

>> Well, you know, it's interesting, too, because I have always been a, you know, best-selling author. But one of my little books is on the New York Times bestselling list, you know, every September. It's on the first day of kindergarten. And they asked me, you cannot make this stuff up. They asked me if I would write it to the song of the 12 days of Christmas. On the first day of kindergarten, I thought it was cool.

Riding the bus to my school. [laughter] Come on, guys. Really? And then we just goes on from there. Riding the on the first day of kindergarten. I thought it was cool meeting new friends and riding the bus to my school. [laughter] And lo and behold, I sang it for my granddaughter's school last week. And you get through the whole 12 days. There you are. you know. So, um, but it's fun. It's fun.

>> What is the biggest landmine to look out for in the work that you do? >> In the work that we do >> from a business perspective and then we'll get into from a writing perspective. >> I would say from a business perspective, just be careful of other languages. A lot of people in children's say, "Oh, can't we have it in Spanish?" Well, or can't we have it in, you know, anything? >> So, this is like translation >> translations. And I just I think it's dangerous to you have to really know what the distribution is for that market. Distribution in the English-speaking lang you know market is difficult enough but to suddenly say you know we're going to do this in whatever you know whatever uh um language make sure that there is interest and distribution channels because it's a whole different thing. One thing I do do and I do urge anybody who's a rhyming author, I do not try to rhyme my books

in different languages. Um, I think you know some it's been done but it's a lot of work and my feeling is and this is a great example because there's already some talk about this one in Spanish. What I would do in this situation, right, is the opening page says something like, "One morning, Samara looked out at the African plains and her heart swelled with pride. Her daughter, Ammani, was close by her side." For the international translation, I would probably write, "It was a beautiful day, and Ammani and her mother were, you know, something Ammani and her mother were outside on a beautiful day."

>> Sure. >> I They don't have to rhyme all this. kids, American kids who speak English love it because that rhythm does help them hold on to the story. And I had a friend once say to me, um, when the one you quoted earlier, which is when birds want to go on a winter vacation, they all take a trip and they call it migration. >> That is so >> I mean, is that cool? And then what he said to me, which is really nice, he said, you're right. And he said, "Because think about it. Birds of a feather flock together or birds go in a group. Completely different." And I'd never actually heard anybody say that to me because they I they like the migration one. But that the other one's true, too. Birds of a feather flock together. Got it. You know, birds like to fly in a group. It's not the same.

So, um it's really interesting what what words can, you know, do for you. Um, but I, you know, I've tried to have my girlfriends sing, uh, some of the songs in Spanish on my website. Um, we're interested in reaching other cultures, but getting an American English books up on Amazon is challenging [laughter] enough, you know, so just think about who's going to buy this book. It's just amazing to me that these books, as I said, just are still out there that I wrote, you know, when my kids my kids are 37 and 36. I they were like one one of my best ones and I I can end with this because it's amazing.

>> Yeah. >> I have a book that's a runaway bestseller called O Baby the Places You'll Go and it was the only time I heard from Dr. Seuss's widow Audrey Geisel and she called me herself. I picked up the phone and there she was. And in the early in the 50s, they did a study that if you're pregnant, right, and you read and read and talk and sing to your baby when the baby's born, they will respond to your voice, you know, a little wiggle with the hands or whatever. And she called me and she asked me to write, "Oh, baby, the places you'll go." And that title at that time was to be read in utero. And she said, "Would you go to the library and read all 42 of Ted's books?" His name was Theodore Geel. They called him Ted. And I did. I went and wrote Horton, Here's a Who. And Horton Hatches the Egg and Urt the Turtle and Thedwick the Moose. And I read them all. And I put a little snippet from all all of them in this

book. And but the one thing I totally believe you do not have to have kids to write for kids. Dr. Seuss didn't have any. He had two stepdaughters, but no children of his own. But the last page of obeyab the places you'll go I wrote and I am not 100% sure I could have done it if I hadn't had my son and my daughter and the last line is um something like and now that my voice verbal herps in your ear with a bump thumpy sound that is not very clear the words you are feeling please know in your heart something that I wish you the very best art. It's a scrumptuous world and it's ready to greet you and ask for myself. Well, I can't wait to meet you.

I don't think I could have written that. And that's the last page in the book. [laughter] This is what I do all day, but yes. [gasps] >> Yeah. >> Well, it was nice to meet you. [laughter] >> Nice to meet you, too. >> So, I will greet you. I will greet you. It was good to meet you. It was fun and thank you and just everybody reading and writing both are so exciting. Read a book or write a story. Start right now. Words to live by.

>> Put on >> [laughter]